Convivea
Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: texasboy on January 02, 2007, 08:05:27 am
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Looking for some of you views.
Over many hundreds of years religion has been the root cause of slaughter/geneside/rape. Yet we find people still following this tradition in even modern society. I will not isolate any one cult as yet because they are all guilty of persecution to other people or nations at some time in our history. The Catholic church was extremely bad at killing others when it came to stealing their gold and treasures. Most violence in my present country has been brought about by religious differences. Now we are living in a world where no country is immune to tit for tat killings and bombings again due to fanatical religious beliefs.
Why do people follow such hatred orientated cultures??
Any thoughts?
cheers
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[Most] Religions themselves are not inherently evil. It's the people who follow them that misinterpret them or the people who lead them are abuse their power.
There will ALWAYS be humans somewhere on this planet that hate/kill someone else simply because they are different.
If religion didn't exist, then people will kill for other reasons, there are plenty examples of this. Nationality, ethnicicity, and physical features are just a couple. Sex is a big one too.
Until all the races and religions combine into one gigantic mass of tanned people who are all some sort of neutral religion, there will always be hate in the world. This is obviously not going to happen.
A while back I also read something ( I think it was on this board) about the extermination of males. It's been proven that females can reproduce on their own, so some radical thinkers believe men will eventually die off. So Stupid...
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I say religion can be interpreted as evil because of what some people have done with it. I am not religious but will stand by religion is one of the best things humans have, because it is what separates us from being nothing more than 'animals'.
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If religion didn't exist, then people will kill for other reasons, there are plenty examples of this. Nationality, ethnicicity, and physical features are just a couple. Sex is a big one too.
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Somewhat true Synbios,But when you look at the above examples with the exception of sex,you will usually associate them with a religious sector or from a country that already has ethnic religious violence.
cheers
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Tex.. I think you are eliminating sex from religion too freely.. sex is also a huge part of religion.. the catholics didn't believe in the pill for instance.. many other religions make you follow the commandments which also involves rules on sex.. so does the bible. Many other religions bring into force female circumcism...
Me.. i had more than my fill when younger.. brain washed, and bible bashed.. then i rebelled.. now i like to make up my own ... i looked towards Buddhism for a long time.. however.. i couldn't hack being a vegetarian for more than 12 months.. joined the Hare Krishnas.. tried many different things.. i have friends in all walks of life and religion.. but its the inner heart which is the true gift. If "true" religious people "truly" followed their religious beliefs.. there wouldn't be half the strife in the world today. Yes.. i am a peacemaker. can't help it.. always look for inner peace.. even though at times.. i too can be tainted.. hahaha
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Hey Tex,
Have you been reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins? I listened to most of the audiobook, he makes some very good points about this topic.
Religion is a great source of literature and history and all of that, but I tend to wonder what the world would be like without it as well. I think the world trade center would still be standing.
The problem with saying that some people who misinterpret religion are the evil ones, is that it's very difficult to tell how to interpret the bible. If you want to take it literally, then genocide and slavery and rape and human sacrifice as well as the death penalty are all fine. If not you may as well just do whatever you want if you're going to pick and choose which stories in the bible to follow anyway.
I suspect that if we ever run into an extraterrestrial civilization far more advanced than our own, they will have abolished religion and nationalism and having separate countries and other things that serve to divide people a while ago.
Another thing that I struggle with about religion is the fact that there is no more evidence for Yahweh than any of the other gods throughout history (Zeus, the Egyptian gods etc.), and yet people are still willing to cause disruptions in the world in the name of God.
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[Most] Religions themselves are not inherently evil. It's the people who follow them that misinterpret them or the people who lead them are abuse their power.
There will ALWAYS be humans somewhere on this planet that hate/kill someone else simply because they are different.
If religion didn't exist, then people will kill for other reasons, there are plenty examples of this. Nationality, ethnicicity, and physical features are just a couple. Sex is a big one too.
Exactly! Don't know about sex lol but yes I completely agree with this point, it more the fault of the followers than the religion itself, most religions tend to preach acceptance and tolerance as the main theme but a few passages in a text here and there will be exploited by others who have much to gain. I personally think its human nature, if there was no religion there would still be the exact same problems hidden behind different reasons.
Until all the races and religions combine into one gigantic mass of tanned people who are all some sort of neutral religion, there will always be hate in the world. This is obviously not going to happen.
This I don't agree with, even though it would seem that all should be right, when we look at this in contrast to the world we live in now, other problems would present themselves to create division and existing ones would probably intensify. These could represent themselves as (for example) a greater division between social classes, divide between rich and the poor, differences of ideals with regards to government/ruling strategy (nationalism/communism/capitalism/anarchy). The laws of the land can be perverted just as much as religion can... living in a police state wouldn't be very different from living under a "religious law", we'd have to watch what we said, what we did, who knows even ate and our basic freedoms would be taken away.
In short we are not perfect, so we can never expect a perfect society, the main thing is that we try to be the best we can be..... and rather ironically this is something religions aim to teach
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In short we are not perfect, so we can never expect a perfect society, the main thing is that we try to be the best we can be..... and rather ironically this is something religions aim to teach
Agreed on most points with exception to the last. We have many hundreds of religious denominations and off shoots from main bodies. It would be nice if everyone followed the course of peace and love but unfortunately most of religious sects are governed by "Old farts" who enjoy the power of being in charge and dishing out punishments as they see fit.
Fear has always been a part of religion.The punishments inflicted by the leaders of the churches have been very harsh to keep "their flock" together. Religion suits the church ,not the masses.
Churches have had to modify their actions in this modern era due to law and human rights, but we still have some religions asking their followers to blow themselves up and kill innocent people.
My point being that religion is not a good teacher and never has been. The Night Watchman made a good point that if it wasn't for religion we would be like animals.We are animals, and need some guidance.
cheers
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In my earlier post by sex I meant male vs. female. ie. mostly the oppression of females by males as their subordinates. This was greatly put into place by the Catholic Church years ago. In pre-christian, pagan times, females were worshiped.
The actual act of sex is a big one too though as you guys have mentioned. Pagans believed that sex was a unification with god and was sacred. Our view of sex in today's society as somewhat sinful and immoral (at least in the case of premarital) is essentially a new belief put in place by christians (for the most part, the catholic church). Even ancient jews have shown to emphasize sex.
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In my earlier post by sex I meant male vs. female. IE. mostly the oppression of females by males as their subordinates. This was greatly put into place by the Catholic Church years ago. In pre-christian, pagan times, females were worshiped.
The actual act of sex is a big one too though as you guys have mentioned. Pagans believed that sex was a unification with god and was sacred. Our view of sex in today's society as somewhat sinful and immoral (at least in the case of premarital) is essentially a new belief put in place by Christians (for the most part, the catholic church). Even ancient Jews have shown to emphasize sex.
Agreed Synbios, I can remember reading many articles where the female had to partake in sexual rituals to appease the elders of the church and be indoctrinated into that faith. Yet the older pagan gods gave women most of the power.
It was always a mans world.lol Religion/marriage to have sex with your partner.(out the window)
cheers
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In short we are not perfect, so we can never expect a perfect society, the main thing is that we try to be the best we can be..... and rather ironically this is something religions aim to teach
Agreed on most points with exception to the last. We have many hundreds of religious denominations and off shoots from main bodies. It would be nice if everyone followed the course of peace and love but unfortunately most of religious sects are governed by "Old farts" who enjoy the power of being in charge and dishing out punishments as they see fit.
Fear has always been a part of religion.The punishments inflicted by the leaders of the churches have been very harsh to keep "their flock" together. Religion suits the church ,not the masses.
Churches have had to modify their actions in this modern era due to law and human rights, but we still have some religions asking their followers to blow themselves up and kill innocent people.
My point being that religion is not a good teacher and never has been. The Night Watchman made a good point that if it wasn't for religion we would be like animals.We are animals, and need some guidance.
cheers
You may have missed what I said then... religion aims to teach but isnt the teacher itself and just like anything else that is taught it too can be corrupted. If you have a bad teacher teaching a difficult subject it will always be more difficult to pass the exam. Religion in its pure form is not meant to be taught by people (old farts or otherwise), its in theory something you should learn for youself. It is very easy to demonise it by saying that it causes war and listing a selection of people who exploit it as those to represnt it but my point was you can do that with anything and in doing so you are also ignoring all the good it causes. We only hear about the bad stuff and rarley the good so its easy to try and use the bad to represent any idea we are against, the person that does this is hardly different from the religious fanatic that chooses which bits of his 'religion' to follow and which to ignore.
You are spot on, there has been many a time religion has been enforced through fear but the theme is it shouldn't need to be enforced at all... that is the point of free will... but it hasn't JUST taught people fear... its taught many other things we would call valuable in our society too but these are never mentioned...
One can argue that now atheism has become a religion in itself, ironicly with fanatics of its own similar to those who refuse to accept the faiths of others
With your example I would say the problem is with the 'old farts' attempting to be teachers not nessisarily with religion itself....
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Point taken Kujo.
Many religions help this world along, you don't have to believe in their doctrine but cannot help notice how sincere the followers are at helping those in need. Most religions if their good book is interpreted correctly preach love and peace to others, unfortunately there are always some leaders who will do it their way and change the whole scenario.
cheers
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Most of the time it is not always the teachings in the religion.. but the people who interpret it incorrectly... many people go to "church" to make them a better person in the eyes of society... for the ones.. who do it for the true reason.. then it is a personal matter.. and one which they only have to answer to one higher being.. (if this is what they believe)..
Individual interpretations in religion is the fundamental curse of many....... too many times these people try to prove to others that their beliefs are the true beliefs... it is a personal subject.. and this is why so many disasters and wars have eventuated from it. Great subject to get your teeth into, as long as it is done with an open mind.
:)
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too many times these people try to prove to others that their beliefs are the true beliefs... it is a personal subject.. and this is why so many disasters and wars have eventuated from it. Great subject to get your teeth into, as long as it is done with an open mind.
:)
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http://search.ntlworld.com/ntlworld/search.php?q=Number+of+religious+denominations+in+California&cr=&x=20&y=4
I give this only to see how many religious offshoots there are in one state(California) alone(hundreds) When you don't agree ,start another church!!! Human interpretation may be the problem, not the religion. Leaders with chip on their shoulders (not our Chip.lol) can cause mayhem.
Bring back Zeus. ;D
cheers
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Thats why i had a go at the Buddhists for a while.. loved their teachings.. the peace and harmony.. however.. i liked my meat too much.. and couldn't stay a vegetarian for very long.. :)
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I'm really glad you felt my statements deserved a reply tex... ;D
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I'm really glad you felt my statements deserved a reply tex... ;D
;D. Yer right , I am tired and missing things.lol. We are all pretty much of the same opinions.
cheers
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That's ok, I was just making sure. Get some sleep now! ;)
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That's ok, I was just making sure. Get some sleep now! ;)
;D Only if you agree that my religion is the one and only true religion.lol
cheers
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I'm sorry tex, but there is only one true and holy way to salvation, and I am afraid you are missing it.
I may have to force you to examine the instruments of torture in my basement if you continue in your heretical ways.. ::)
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I'm sorry tex, but there is only one true and holy way to salvation, and I am afraid you are missing it.
I may have to force you to examine the instruments of torture in my basement if you continue in your heretical ways.. ::)
lol, religion offers torture for none beleivers ;D
We are back where we started.
cheers
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I'm sorry tex, but there is only one true and holy way to salvation, and I am afraid you are missing it.
I may have to force you to examine the instruments of torture in my basement if you continue in your heretical ways.. ::)
lol, religion offers torture for none beleivers ;D
We are back where we started.
cheers
Well I'm glad we didn't manage to make any progress... :D
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