With the recent tragedies

[Quantum]

Oh I agree entirely. I think local variables of individual nations play a much bigger factor than what % of people who have guns. But I've not tried to make a point otherwise, neither have I argued that guns should be banned in the U.S.

However, I do think gun avalability plays an issue in what 'type' of crimes occur, take the number of school shootings in the U.K vs. the U.S for example. I'm quite happy knowing that it's not likely that some person on the bus with me has a gun, maybe I'm living in some naive world where it's not needed for people to carry around highly leathal machines designed to kill people, but I really like that world.

[kujo]

Oh I agree entirely. I think local variables of individual nations play a much bigger factor than what % of people who have guns. But I've not tried to make a point otherwise, neither have I argued that guns should be banned in the U.S.

However, I do think gun availability plays an issue in what 'type' of crimes occur, take the number of school shootings in the U.K vs. the U.S for example. I'm quite happy knowing that it's not likely that some person on the bus with me has a gun, maybe I'm living in some naive world where it's not needed for people to carry around highly lethal machines designed to kill people, but I really like that world.

But there are still weapons being brought into the schools in the UK, there has been a recent media frenzy about pupils bringing in  knives and attacking other pupils and staff with them at schools.  Knife culture here is worse than it is in the states and knife attacks are much more common cause of homicide here. Naturally the world would be a better place with guns used in sport or hunting but saldy this is not the case. If there were no guns at all in our society or US society the crimes would still occur with other weapons or items that could be used offensively...

"Home Office statistics which show that 1,200 reported attacks occurred last year and 30 per cent of homicides were caused by knife injury."
SOURCE : http://news.monstersandcritics.com/uk/article_1203895.php/Serious_knife_crime_increasing


"Of the 839 homicides in England and Wales in the 12 months ending Nov. 28 — the most recent period for which Home Office figures are available — 29% involved sharp instruments including knives, blades and swords. Firearms account for just 9% of murders in Britain"

"The U.S. murder rate is 55 per million, according to the FBI. Of those, 70% of murders were committed with firearms; just 14% involved knives or cutting instruments"

SOURCE : http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-05-30-knife-amnesty_x.htm

If there were anti-gun laws in the states I'd be willing to bet my liver that the percentage of knife crimes would increase dramatically. My first source includes several successfully implemented ideas for combating bad behavior and crime in schools but nothing will eliminate it.

[Quantum]

First of all "recent media frenzy" is rarely respective of real trends.

Who said anything about eliminating it? Of course knife crime would go up if guns were harder to get hold, remove a gun from a criminal and they are still probabily going to be a criminal. I'm not debating otherwise...

[kujo]

First of all "recent media frenzy" is rarely respective of real trends.

Who said anything about eliminating it? Of course knife crime would go up if guns were harder to get hold, remove a gun from a criminal and they are still probably going to be a criminal. I'm not debating otherwise...

I said media frenzy because its whatever they think is a good story to report at the time but home office figures do show that knife crime is on the rise despite the amnesty. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, the debate is wether banning guns would be the answer in the US so far based on what I've observed I'm skeptical it'd work.

[sbaynard]

If you want to think of it from a paranoid citizens viewpoint you might say that we should have the right to guns just incase we need to revolt? :-D
It would kind of suck if only the military and police had access to firearms in that case eh?

I don't really care either way.

[soraflair]

It's not like it matters, its in the constitution. Its one of our rights, and it will always be that way till the downfall of America.

[deckkeeper]

It's not like it matters, its in the constitution. Its one of our rights, and it will always be that way till the downfall of America.

It was an amendment. That means they messed up in the original, so they added it later. We've added and taken away plenty of things. Also, the wording of it in the original drafts implied that people were allowed to form armed militias.

I can kind of understand people wanting guns for hunting and personal defense. However, there are people who get upset about assault rifles being banned. Do you really need to spray bullets at deer? How often are you going to need to pull out an automatic to take care of that mugger?

I doubt will see any strong gun bans any time soon, and I'm not sure how effective they will be, but I'd rather lose the right to carry a deadly weapon than risk letting a potentially suicidal guy carry one. Why do we even need guns? Aren't tasers safer and just as effective?

[texasboy]

It's not like it matters, its in the constitution. Its one of our rights, and it will always be that way till the downfall of America.

It was an amendment. That means they messed up in the original, so they added it later. We've added and taken away plenty of things. Also, the wording of it in the original drafts implied that people were allowed to form armed militias.

I can kind of understand people wanting guns for hunting and personal defense. However, there are people who get upset about assault rifles being banned. Do you really need to spray bullets at deer? How often are you going to need to pull out an automatic to take care of that mugger?

I doubt will see any strong gun bans any time soon, and I'm not sure how effective they will be, but I'd rather lose the right to carry a deadly weapon than risk letting a potentially suicidal guy carry one. Why do we even need guns? Aren't tasers safer and just as effective?

Amen, deckkeeper
cheers