Author Topic: Upgrading my PC  (Read 14485 times)

weera

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Upgrading my PC
« on: April 15, 2007, 03:14:28 am »
Hi guys!
I'd like to upgrade my PC (Mobo, Processor, Memory, HDD) and I want to ask few things. It's a value thing since I only have about $600-700 to spend.

1. Would I have to re-install windows again from the beginning if I use a new HDD as the primary hard drive? Is there a way to copy all system files on drive C to the new HDD?
2. I'm planning to buy Pentium D 945 (3.4 GHz, FSB 800MHz), I think it's quite a bargain since core 2 duo still expensive. Is it enough for me? I use my PC for video and graphic editing.
3. How much do I have to buy memory for this new processor? 1GB or 2GB?
4. How big is the power supply should I buy for my upgraded PC run smoothly?

Thanks in advance for any info guys :)

Offline Quantum

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Re: Upgrading my PC
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2007, 05:40:00 am »
1. Yes, look in to programs like Norton Ghost, though never used it myself.

2. Pentium Ds are cheap for a reason, they're kinda crap. AMD and Intel have announced price cuts recently ( http://www.dailytech.com/AMD+Cuts+Prices+on+Highend+Processors/article6848.htm ), I would vastly recommended going for AMD. Low-Mid end AMD CPUs compete with if not out do Intels best offer in Price / Performance for the same price. Also AMDs use an open standard for their connection, this tends to mean their motherboards are of higher quality at lower price (though do look in to reviews of what you're buying before you buy it), you can get something like an nForce 570 SLi chipset motherboard for a very cheap price compared to Intel based Boards similar offerings. Also AMDs current socket, the AM2 is forwards compatible (with a BIOS update) with AMDs upcoming new architecture the AM2+ CPUs.

3. The amount of memory you want is up to you, if you want to do video and graphics editing I recommend 2 - 4 GBs, you should also think about what kind of speed you want (get at least DDR2 667, but it goes all the way up to 1066 these days).

4. Massively depends on what kind of graphics card you have. Also consider the quality of a PSU is important, a high quality 450 Watts is about equivalent to a 550 - 600 Watt unbranded PSU.
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Offline chip!

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Re: Upgrading my PC
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2007, 06:33:57 am »
when it comes time to upgrade your hdd, you have a couple options.. if you dont want to reinstall Windows and start fresh, then i would recommend using DriveClone 2 to copy your old hdd to the new one. its much better than the newer versions of Norton Ghost.. I recently replaced my hdd and tested out like 5 different programs and a couple versions of Norton Ghost and DriveClone 2 was the only one I was able to get working properly..

http://www.farstone.com/software/driveclone.htm

  -  https://convivea.com  -   And...  boom goes the dynamite.

weera

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Re: Upgrading my PC
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2007, 03:28:59 am »
1. Yes, look in to programs like Norton Ghost, though never used it myself.

2. Pentium Ds are cheap for a reason, they're kinda crap. AMD and Intel have announced price cuts recently ( http://www.dailytech.com/AMD+Cuts+Prices+on+Highend+Processors/article6848.htm ), I would vastly recommended going for AMD. Low-Mid end AMD CPUs compete with if not out do Intels best offer in Price / Performance for the same price. Also AMDs use an open standard for their connection, this tends to mean their motherboards are of higher quality at lower price (though do look in to reviews of what you're buying before you buy it), you can get something like an nForce 570 SLi chipset motherboard for a very cheap price compared to Intel based Boards similar offerings. Also AMDs current socket, the AM2 is forwards compatible (with a BIOS update) with AMDs upcoming new architecture the AM2+ CPUs.

3. The amount of memory you want is up to you, if you want to do video and graphics editing I recommend 2 - 4 GBs, you should also think about what kind of speed you want (get at least DDR2 667, but it goes all the way up to 1066 these days).

4. Massively depends on what kind of graphics card you have. Also consider the quality of a PSU is important, a high quality 450 Watts is about equivalent to a 550 - 600 Watt unbranded PSU.
Thanks Quantum for your reply. :)
I'll look into AMD now, maybe I'll get a good review and buy it.
As for previously I 'm planning on buying ASUS    P5N32-E SLI combine with Pentium D945.
As for memory I'm planning on buying DDR2 667.

when it comes time to upgrade your hdd, you have a couple options.. if you dont want to reinstall Windows and start fresh, then i would recommend using DriveClone 2 to copy your old hdd to the new one. its much better than the newer versions of Norton Ghost.. I recently replaced my hdd and tested out like 5 different programs and a couple versions of Norton Ghost and DriveClone 2 was the only one I was able to get working properly..

http://www.farstone.com/software/driveclone.htm


I'll look in to it Chip. Thanks :)

Offline TheNightWatchman

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Re: Upgrading my PC
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2007, 09:01:36 pm »
I bought a similar computer last year (Pentium D with 2GB ram) which the only intensive thing I do is video editing.

I use Core2Duos with a lot of RAM, good graphics card, etc at Uni and it's not a lot different. I think it depends on how much time you want to spend rendering and if you use Adobe After Effects etc.

I mean get the best that you can, but I find requirements for video editing aren't as big as people make out to be. Although if you're planning to re edit the matrix and do motion capture, it probably wouldn't load all week  ;)

Offline Quantum

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Re: Upgrading my PC
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2007, 11:59:57 pm »
I bought a similar computer last year (Pentium D with 2GB ram) which the only intensive thing I do is video editing.

I use Core2Duos with a lot of RAM, good graphics card, etc at Uni and it's not a lot different. I think it depends on how much time you want to spend rendering and if you use Adobe After Effects etc.

I mean get the best that you can, but I find requirements for video editing aren't as big as people make out to be. Although if you're planning to re edit the matrix and do motion capture, it probably wouldn't load all week  ;)

It's all a matter of what you're doing. I think the most noticeable difference between CPUs is re-encoding, a lot of other things take so little time it's not a problem or so much time you don't tend to think about it you just leave it going for days. But if you take in an MPEG2 Transport stream at 1080i and re-encode it to a h264 file at 720p at 2 pass with b-frames and the like, that's going to take any time from 2 hours (high end Core 2 Quad) to about 8-9 hours (low end Pentium D).

I own a 3800+ X2, most work I do is gaming or programming mathematical engines. I know Core 2 Duo would get me a better performance (like 30 - 40%), but yeah, to me it doesn't feel like it's worth buying a whole new PC just to get that performance advantage, well worth waiting till I get a decent quad core or whatever. But if I was to buy a new computer now I certainly wouldn't get a 3800+, even if I was on a budget, you can get a lot better for a still fairly cheap price (seen a 4800 at £80!).
Daniel: "This tastes like chicken."
Carter: "So what's wrong with it?"
Daniel: "It's macaroni and cheese."

weera

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Re: Upgrading my PC
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2007, 02:03:54 am »
I bought a similar computer last year (Pentium D with 2GB ram) which the only intensive thing I do is video editing.

I use Core2Duos with a lot of RAM, good graphics card, etc at Uni and it's not a lot different. I think it depends on how much time you want to spend rendering and if you use Adobe After Effects etc.

I mean get the best that you can, but I find requirements for video editing aren't as big as people make out to be. Although if you're planning to re edit the matrix and do motion capture, it probably wouldn't load all week  ;)

It's all a matter of what you're doing. I think the most noticeable difference between CPUs is re-encoding, a lot of other things take so little time it's not a problem or so much time you don't tend to think about it you just leave it going for days. But if you take in an MPEG2 Transport stream at 1080i and re-encode it to a h264 file at 720p at 2 pass with b-frames and the like, that's going to take any time from 2 hours (high end Core 2 Quad) to about 8-9 hours (low end Pentium D).

I own a 3800+ X2, most work I do is gaming or programming mathematical engines. I know Core 2 Duo would get me a better performance (like 30 - 40%), but yeah, to me it doesn't feel like it's worth buying a whole new PC just to get that performance advantage, well worth waiting till I get a decent quad core or whatever. But if I was to buy a new computer now I certainly wouldn't get a 3800+, even if I was on a budget, you can get a lot better for a still fairly cheap price (seen a 4800 at £80!).
yeah, I'm planning on editing videos coz my GF is a student of a broadcasting school and she ask me to help her alot on editing.
while to get an AMD I still don't know, I usually use intel and still need something to made me move to AMD :)

Offline Quantum

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Re: Upgrading my PC
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2007, 03:40:10 am »
I bought a similar computer last year (Pentium D with 2GB ram) which the only intensive thing I do is video editing.

I use Core2Duos with a lot of RAM, good graphics card, etc at Uni and it's not a lot different. I think it depends on how much time you want to spend rendering and if you use Adobe After Effects etc.

I mean get the best that you can, but I find requirements for video editing aren't as big as people make out to be. Although if you're planning to re edit the matrix and do motion capture, it probably wouldn't load all week  ;)

It's all a matter of what you're doing. I think the most noticeable difference between CPUs is re-encoding, a lot of other things take so little time it's not a problem or so much time you don't tend to think about it you just leave it going for days. But if you take in an MPEG2 Transport stream at 1080i and re-encode it to a h264 file at 720p at 2 pass with b-frames and the like, that's going to take any time from 2 hours (high end Core 2 Quad) to about 8-9 hours (low end Pentium D).

I own a 3800+ X2, most work I do is gaming or programming mathematical engines. I know Core 2 Duo would get me a better performance (like 30 - 40%), but yeah, to me it doesn't feel like it's worth buying a whole new PC just to get that performance advantage, well worth waiting till I get a decent quad core or whatever. But if I was to buy a new computer now I certainly wouldn't get a 3800+, even if I was on a budget, you can get a lot better for a still fairly cheap price (seen a 4800 at £80!).
yeah, I'm planning on editing videos coz my GF is a student of a broadcasting school and she ask me to help her alot on editing.
while to get an AMD I still don't know, I usually use intel and still need something to made me move to AMD :)

I can't comment on U.S prices, but here in the U.K:

Pentium D 945 = £103 (http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/114194)
MSI G965M (okish Motherboard, few of things I don't like on it but 1 of the better ones for the price range) = £68 (http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/121045)
Total: £171

MSI K9N4 (Specs on this look really good, much better than the one above) = £52 http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/122758
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ = £109 (http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/124915)
Total: £161

Now lets compare their encoding times (they had the right AMD CPU but not quite the right Intel CPU so I selected a slightly more power Intel CPU, i.e the Pentium 950):

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=437&model2=696&chart=177
This is a movie encode, the first 5 minuites of terminator 2 SE, DVD to DivX:

Pentium takes: 8 mins 20 secs
Athlon takes: 6 mins 45 sec
AMD advantage: 23.5%

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=437&model2=696&chart=178
Lame MP3 encoding, first 53 mins, same film:

Pentium takes: 4 mins 10 secs
AMD takes: 3 mins 9 secs
AMD Advantage: 32.2%

Finally, if you wanted to do gaming, F.E.A.R in maximum quality,

Frames Per Second on Pentium: 46
Frames Per Second on AMD: 62


If those numbers aren't enough to convince you, cheaper price, much nicer motherboard and across the board tangible improvements in performance, not to mention that the AMD CPUs tend to run at much cooler temperatures than the old Pentium netburst architecture meaning you could stick a quiter fan in there. Then I don't know what will convince you haha.

P.S The price / performance index of tomshardware uses quite outdated pricing structure and of course doesn't take in to account AMD motherboards tend to be better at cheaper prices.

P.P.S If you still really want to go with Intel, have you considered an E6300? In this country it's at about £107, a shade more than Pentium D 945, it performs probably a tiny little worse than the 5600+, but I'd say about 5%, with the very occasional better benchmark.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2007, 03:51:21 am by Quantum »
Daniel: "This tastes like chicken."
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texasboy

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Re: Upgrading my PC
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2007, 08:37:35 am »
 ;D Just a little bit of info if the price is right.
http://www.pureoverclock.com/article645.html
cheers

Offline Quantum

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Re: Upgrading my PC
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2007, 06:57:09 pm »
;D Just a little bit of info if the price is right.
http://www.pureoverclock.com/article645.html
cheers

The 8600GTS is quite cool, but it doesn't provide any major advantage in terms of performance at its price range. It does however have slight advantages to other cards in the £100 - £130 region, namely a higher shader rate which means the newer the game the better it will perform compared to its older counterparts. DirectX 10, so it has a little future proofing. Also the most interesting feature is 100% decoding if you set it up with hardware acceleration, this is very useful if you want to play h264 1080p movies, they are massively taxing on a CPU and you need to be very careful choosing the right codecs or you'll quickly find an e6700 brought to its knees.
Daniel: "This tastes like chicken."
Carter: "So what's wrong with it?"
Daniel: "It's macaroni and cheese."

weera

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Re: Upgrading my PC
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2007, 02:27:29 am »
I bought a similar computer last year (Pentium D with 2GB ram) which the only intensive thing I do is video editing.

I use Core2Duos with a lot of RAM, good graphics card, etc at Uni and it's not a lot different. I think it depends on how much time you want to spend rendering and if you use Adobe After Effects etc.

I mean get the best that you can, but I find requirements for video editing aren't as big as people make out to be. Although if you're planning to re edit the matrix and do motion capture, it probably wouldn't load all week  ;)

It's all a matter of what you're doing. I think the most noticeable difference between CPUs is re-encoding, a lot of other things take so little time it's not a problem or so much time you don't tend to think about it you just leave it going for days. But if you take in an MPEG2 Transport stream at 1080i and re-encode it to a h264 file at 720p at 2 pass with b-frames and the like, that's going to take any time from 2 hours (high end Core 2 Quad) to about 8-9 hours (low end Pentium D).

I own a 3800+ X2, most work I do is gaming or programming mathematical engines. I know Core 2 Duo would get me a better performance (like 30 - 40%), but yeah, to me it doesn't feel like it's worth buying a whole new PC just to get that performance advantage, well worth waiting till I get a decent quad core or whatever. But if I was to buy a new computer now I certainly wouldn't get a 3800+, even if I was on a budget, you can get a lot better for a still fairly cheap price (seen a 4800 at £80!).
yeah, I'm planning on editing videos coz my GF is a student of a broadcasting school and she ask me to help her alot on editing.
while to get an AMD I still don't know, I usually use intel and still need something to made me move to AMD :)

I can't comment on U.S prices, but here in the U.K:

Pentium D 945 = £103 (http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/114194)
MSI G965M (okish Motherboard, few of things I don't like on it but 1 of the better ones for the price range) = £68 (http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/121045)
Total: £171

MSI K9N4 (Specs on this look really good, much better than the one above) = £52 http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/122758
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ = £109 (http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/124915)
Total: £161

Now lets compare their encoding times (they had the right AMD CPU but not quite the right Intel CPU so I selected a slightly more power Intel CPU, i.e the Pentium 950):

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=437&model2=696&chart=177
This is a movie encode, the first 5 minuites of terminator 2 SE, DVD to DivX:

Pentium takes: 8 mins 20 secs
Athlon takes: 6 mins 45 sec
AMD advantage: 23.5%

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=437&model2=696&chart=178
Lame MP3 encoding, first 53 mins, same film:

Pentium takes: 4 mins 10 secs
AMD takes: 3 mins 9 secs
AMD Advantage: 32.2%

Finally, if you wanted to do gaming, F.E.A.R in maximum quality,

Frames Per Second on Pentium: 46
Frames Per Second on AMD: 62


If those numbers aren't enough to convince you, cheaper price, much nicer motherboard and across the board tangible improvements in performance, not to mention that the AMD CPUs tend to run at much cooler temperatures than the old Pentium netburst architecture meaning you could stick a quiter fan in there. Then I don't know what will convince you haha.

P.S The price / performance index of tomshardware uses quite outdated pricing structure and of course doesn't take in to account AMD motherboards tend to be better at cheaper prices.

P.P.S If you still really want to go with Intel, have you considered an E6300? In this country it's at about £107, a shade more than Pentium D 945, it performs probably a tiny little worse than the 5600+, but I'd say about 5%, with the very occasional better benchmark.

Okay guys, now I think I got a sheer for AMD.. :)

This is my line up for both processors.

INTEL: Core2Duo E6300, ASUS P5N32-SLI, ASUS Extreme N7600GS TOP SILENT/HTD/512M, 2x Kingston 1GB DDR-800, 2 HDD total 330GB.

AMD: Athlon 64 X2 4600+, ABIT K9N-SLI, ASUS Extreme N7600GS TOP SILENT/HTD/512M, 2x Kingston 1GB DDR-800, 2 HDD total 330 GB.

Now I want to ask one more thing.. How much power do I have to get my PC running smooth and maybe overclock (for AMD)?

Thanks guys :)

Offline Quantum

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Re: Upgrading my PC
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2007, 06:13:00 am »
Well my 450 Watt PSU would easily be able to handle either of those 2 set-ups, but it's quite a good quality one (CoolMaster brand), so yeah, basically I would say 450 High Quality would be more than enough, 500 if it's a little cheaper.

The 4600 hmm, the e6300 probably out performs by a good margin (10%?), but I imagine the 4600 is a lot cheaper. Both of them I think have the potential over clock quite well.
Daniel: "This tastes like chicken."
Carter: "So what's wrong with it?"
Daniel: "It's macaroni and cheese."

weera

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Re: Upgrading my PC
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2007, 07:53:01 am »
Hi guys!
Just wanna tell you guys that I have built a new rig for me :)
These are the specification for $700++ that I have spent
-AMD 64 X2 4600+ @2.4 GHz
-Abit KN9 Ultra AM2 Socket
-Apacer 2GB DDR2 800MHz
-160GB Western Digital HDD
-Zotac Nvidia 7600GT 256MB
-Enlight 500W PSU
-17" Wide LCD Monitor

Thanks for helping me previously guys :)

@Quantum: Finally I moved to AMD for value  ;)

Offline Quantum

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Re: Upgrading my PC
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2007, 11:05:28 am »
Haha, cool, probably just about the point where I'm tipping over to Intel as well. But yeah, for that price range, there's not a massive difference between Intel or AMD, no matter what the fanboys tell you.

With a bit of luck though you should have a good upgrade path this Christmas when their Agena CPUs come out (new architecture).
Daniel: "This tastes like chicken."
Carter: "So what's wrong with it?"
Daniel: "It's macaroni and cheese."

weera

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Re: Upgrading my PC
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2007, 05:09:44 am »
Haha, cool, probably just about the point where I'm tipping over to Intel as well. But yeah, for that price range, there's not a massive difference between Intel or AMD, no matter what the fanboys tell you.

With a bit of luck though you should have a good upgrade path this Christmas when their Agena CPUs come out (new architecture).
actually..for that kind of money I couldn't get intel based CPU with the similar specs for my PC here in Indonesia. :)

Btw, will this new Agena use the same AM2 socket or it will use a brand new one?
maybe you can help a bit with some info links? thanks before Quantum :)