Forums > General Discussion
With the recent tragedies
Quantum:
--- Quote from: kujo on October 04, 2006, 10:53:48 pm ---
--- Quote from: Quantum on October 04, 2006, 10:38:16 pm ---
--- Quote from: kujo on October 04, 2006, 09:04:50 pm ---I think banning guns would be pointless, other weapons would be used instead. Britain today is a prime example of this, guns are banned so we go around stabbing or beating people to death instead. The homicide rates in our inner cities are comparable to those observed in the states. Besides even if guns were banned an illegal trade of them would crop up to fill the gap and create more crime in the process, despite the ban here will still have gun crime.
--- End quote ---
That's only true in the sense that everything is 'comparable' to everything else. You may go around stabbing and beating people to death, but I would say in that case you are in the minority.
Have you seen the difference in gun crime statistics between the U.S and the U.K, it's huge. There are about as many guns in the U.S as there are people, illegal trade does not reach those levels in western countries when guns are banned.
--- End quote ---
No you may have missed the point here while our GUN CRIMES may be a lot lower our homicide rates are NOT. This means despite the ban on guns people still get murdered just as often here as they do in the states regardless if its done by a gun. As for the other, not sure what you are getting at but people who commit crimes are always the minority, unless you speak of war. People determined to commit a crime will always do so, if doing through one means is difficult they will revert to another... my point....
Guns are NOTthe problem
--- End quote ---
I didn't miss your point, I was just too subtle about mine.
We don't have the same homicide rates, every statistic I've seen shows that taken in to account of population we have about 1/3 - 1/4 the homicide rate. So please provide factual evidence rather than stuff you just made up.
Furthermore, the statistics I've seen put non-gun related homicide rates at lower than the U.S, as well as gun-related homicide rates significantly lower.
bosoxfan:
Got to love these Republicans...
--- Quote ---Wis. lawmaker urges arming teachers
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
MADISON, Wis. -- A state lawmaker, worried about a recent string of deadly school shootings, suggested arming teachers, principals and other school personnel as a safety measure and a deterrent.
It might not be politically correct, but it has worked effectively in other countries, Republican Rep. Frank Lasee said Wednesday.
"To make our schools safe for our students to learn, all options should be on the table," he said. "Israel and Thailand have well-trained teachers carrying weapons and keeping their children safe from harm. It can work in Wisconsin."
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_School_Weapons.html
--- End quote ---
texasboy:
Just a little footnote fom a few years ago.
http://www.guninformation.org/
cheers
kyopedlr:
with guns in school, who would need to bring a gun with them in order to shoot up a school. I'd just grab one off the cop and start a rampage.... that is like saying to the people, "No need to buy a gun, just take one here." School is supposed to be a saf haven from violence by teaching kids to do good. Not giving them the old, "do as I say but not as I do." bull...
-kyopedlr
kujo:
--- Quote from: Quantum on October 05, 2006, 03:50:24 am ---
--- Quote from: kujo on October 04, 2006, 10:53:48 pm ---
--- Quote from: Quantum on October 04, 2006, 10:38:16 pm ---
--- Quote from: kujo on October 04, 2006, 09:04:50 pm ---I think banning guns would be pointless, other weapons would be used instead. Britain today is a prime example of this, guns are banned so we go around stabbing or beating people to death instead. The homicide rates in our inner cities are comparable to those observed in the states. Besides even if guns were banned an illegal trade of them would crop up to fill the gap and create more crime in the process, despite the ban here will still have gun crime.
--- End quote ---
That's only true in the sense that everything is 'comparable' to everything else. You may go around stabbing and beating people to death, but I would say in that case you are in the minority.
Have you seen the difference in gun crime statistics between the U.S and the U.K, it's huge. There are about as many guns in the U.S as there are people, illegal trade does not reach those levels in western countries when guns are banned.
--- End quote ---
No you may have missed the point here while our GUN CRIMES may be a lot lower our homicide rates are NOT. This means despite the ban on guns people still get murdered just as often here as they do in the states regardless if its done by a gun. As for the other, not sure what you are getting at but people who commit crimes are always the minority, unless you speak of war. People determined to commit a crime will always do so, if doing through one means is difficult they will revert to another... my point....
Guns are NOTthe problem
--- End quote ---
I didn't miss your point, I was just too subtle about mine.
We don't have the same homicide rates, every statistic I've seen shows that taken in to account of population we have about 1/3 - 1/4 the homicide rate. So please provide factual evidence rather than stuff you just made up.
Furthermore, the statistics I've seen put non-gun related homicide rates at lower than the U.S, as well as gun-related homicide rates significantly lower.
--- End quote ---
I find it amusing you arrogantly assume I have made stuff up then go on to put down some statistics without citing any sources thus perpetuating what you accuse me of... ::)
But very well let me explain why I'm of the opinion that guns are not the problem..
1) In the NEW YORK POST circa 14th June to 8th July 2006 (I dont have the article but I'm sure you can request an online copy of it) there was a coloumn on Guliani Cleaning up new york city and within they illustrated that despite new york having the same population as London you were up to 8 times more likely to be a victim of violent crime in London, this inluded muggings along with homicide.
2) Found a similar article in the Anmerican spectator on the web... I quote
"Recently total crime rates for London have been estimated at about seven times those of New York for a slightly smaller population and some authorities suggest these figures have been minimized. England and Wales are now accounted by some estimates as the most dangerous places for crime in the developed world.
New York and London have populations of 8 million and 7 million respectively and comparable police budgets"
"In 2002 a study found that 11 million crimes had been left out of British government figures, including hundreds of thousands of serious crimes involving woundings, robberies, assaults and even murders as well as thefts. Dr. David Green of the Civitas research institute said: "When you check the small print, it turns out the Home Office itself thinks that there were far more than the 13 million crimes discovered by the [official] British Crime Survey, perhaps four times as many."
SOURCE :http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9641
3) SWITZERLAND (one word) do I really need to say anymore... give more sources as on this there would be many, this is also one country of several with a high gun ownership per populus percantage and low homicide percantage per populus. This example I regard as common knowledge however if you want sources I would be happy to provide. Finland is another example...
I'm not saying gun ownership doesn't contribute to homicide rates, just that it is not the main problem behind the issue. It's an opinion I made based on articles I read and statistics I've seen NOT made up... while the UK overall may have lower homicide rates, the rates observed in our inner cities is arguably comparable. In New York guns have not been banned but the homicide rate is lower than London, where guns have been banned.
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